GGPoker Exclusive Cash Games: Four Poker Pros’ Polarized Opinions

What GGPoker Does with VIP Cash Games?

On October 31^st, 2024 professional poker player and coach of bitB Cash Poker Coaching George “YOU-MAD-BRO​” Froggatt, also known as PlasticElephant, posted a rumor on X (ex-Twitter) about future changes coming to the GGNetwork:

Seems like @GGPoker are making 5k+ invite only, VIP only from Nov 8th.

Quite sad, online poker used to be the real meritocracy.

If you thought you were the best, you could sit the lobby vs the best at the highest stakes.

Now it will be live poker style politics.

— George (@George_ymb) October 31, 2024

Over the next few days, several other players shared information about receiving e-mails from personal managers at different GG skins with the following context:

“The service format will be changed soon. This will affect all VIP tables in our network. The new rules imply closed access. Admission will be strictly by invitation. The opportunity to join the exclusive service is provided by hosts approved by the network administration. Also, each player is checked and access for regulars will be closed. This format promises interesting communication, pleasant acquaintances and a qualitatively new level of play. You will be able to share the impressions of the game with those who appreciate the corresponding atmosphere.

If you are interested, we will provide you with the host’s contacts.”

Finally, on November 8th, 2024 GGPoker announced some game-changing novelties regarding its VIP cash tables.

1. First, GGPoker moved their cash tables into the Exclusive tab and made any High Stakes Cash Games above $25/50 invitation-only. This means players can no longer participate in the game without sending a request to the game host and being accepted as a participant.
2. Second, the poker client restricted access for poker professionals, stating that for an unknown period of time the only pros at the cash tables will be sponsored GG players. 
3. Third, the operator added mandatory VPIP for exclusive tables and changed the VIP Games format to Squid Game.

As of December 12th, 2024 the Exclusive tab on GGPoker included 7 variants of cash games with a different limits:

There are also tabs for AoF Hold’em and AoF Omaha high stakes games but by the time this article was published they both were empty.

Discussion of GGPoker Exclusive between Cates, Ingram & Marinelli 

Among the people who unexpectedly supported GGPoker amid this decision was a high stakes poker player Dan “Jungleman” Cates. To share his point of view, Dan wrote a short post on X (ex-Twitter):

Guys I am actually in favor of private games happening and will support it. People should have the ability and freedom to reliably choose who they want to play, for the ecology and betterment of the game.

I don't agree with all of @GGPoker decisions, especially not removing…

— Daniel Cates 🇺🇸 🌎 (@junglemandan) November 12, 2024

This tweet provoked two very different discussions: one with a well-known high stakes cash player and coach Matthew Marinelli and other with a poker podcaster Joey Ingram.

We structured their tweet shootout in the form of dialogue for the sake of convenience.

Dan Cates v Joey Ingram

Joey: Sounds like someone who can play in those games — not anything wrong with that perspective and I’m in the same camp but lot of pros want to play public games so why not also give that option to pros and recs who still want to play?

I’m on the other end of the discussion as a player where this would actually make me consider playing high stakes cash on GG whereas before the only option is to mainly play with a small pool of players. 

I would also want to battle in the public games if those were available.

Dan: Aren’t they available? Many VIPs and softer pros I know won’t play online because of this ghosting condition.

Joey: Everyone knows that you have to count on the host of the game to provide a safe environment and some hosts are a lot better than others at that. Some are working very hard against you to take a 100% fee depending on the day. 

I could also be worried about the ghosting condition unless I knew the people myself but I never really expect the same person to be on a name more than once at high stakes. They teach you this in high stakes 101 class.

Dan: Yes, there should probably be public high stakes games somewhere. I can play, but I was temporarily asked to sit out, obeyed, only to hear irritating news straight away.

I believe the top high stakes players should be glorified, actually, just as top athletes are and get perks that benefit from the system. 

However they should not abuse the system that was responsible for their success.

Joey: The ethos of the WSOP is to be a place anyone in the world can compete at those stakes if they can buy in 

Having a thriving public battleground while also hosting another battleground with private games to me makes a lot more sense. I’ll look to invest in a place like that now if GG is going to get rid of it because the demand seems very high.

I don’t disagree with the stance on the way some regs can use as a strategy and wanting to provide the customers a different experience.

Dan: Perhaps that’s an opportunity for @WSOP then.

Joey: Very true — should be interesting and I hope we get to see something special. 

I think this move is very very unfair to players and it’s easy to take the stance of fuck you guys when you’re on the other side with access to games. 

Having some humility for players who are losing their poker careers and have built that off the high stakes ecosystem in GG is important — some people in that mix you might say are using shitty tactics but don’t think it applies to everyone. 

The game becomes adapt or die for a reg but when you see your trusted ambassadors kick you out for the fish to themselves while misleading you and taking all your fish for the first time it can be alarming. Obviously used to that in the USA but lots of these people aren’t.

Dan Cates v Matt Marinelli

Matt: I’m fine with private games and there’s plenty of them available on apps. 

The problem is removing all public games and taking away the option to play high stakes at all. Shouldn’t you equally support people’s ability to play on an open platform if that’s what they want to do?

Coin Poker has some private games and public games on their site, and people seem to basically accept that. Why couldn’t GG operate the same way?

Dan: I do but why do these players need to play nosebleeds against fish? Lol? To get richer to do nothing of worth for their money? 

High stakes players crying that they can’t play high stakes games with VIPs, the true biggest value adds to the poker at large, just boils down to outright GREED.

Matt: lmao GG is only doing it so they can take even more money from the fish at the casino. If your argument was “that’s capitalism bro, deal with it”, then I’d actually weirdly accept that, but don’t make an altruistic argument out of this.

Also, the poker dream entirely revolved around getting “rich” playing poker. GG benefits from that by building an empire of a game that has that spirit. I admire the philanthropy you’ve done, but I find it needlessly judgmental to critique what poker players do with their money.

Dan: You ignored all my points.

How does this allow GG to get more of their money? GG may be self incentivized but they’ve also done loads of things for the game.

Matt: Your main point is poker players are greedy fucks, but GG is literally just doing this because they could make way more to send the same recs to the casino. The don’t give a damn about poker or the well-being of recreational players, so I reject an altruistic defense.

Yes, I’m very grateful for GG and I’m sure they’ve made tons of money along the way. I just don’t want them to turn their backs on poker now that they have a monopoly position.

The median reg won at 0.9 evbb/100 over the past 365 days at 50/100+ on GG, btw. Just in case you wanted something quantifiable, because regs aren’t exactly rolling in dough in +10bb/100 games every day.

Dan: That would be where I don’t agree with them. I don’t think it’s right that the host takes such a large % of the cut of the client.

Matt: So why do you support them closing the VIP room entirely then? 40% of regs have a losing year at 5k+ on GG as it is. Only a very small % of total hands are played vs super whales at 40k+. Playing GG is a high-variance, low margin, 1bb/100 grind; I wouldn’t consider that “greed”.

I think regs want the public games open DESPITE how difficult it is to survive the rake. I don’t think most regs feel entitled to it, but the site that owns the WSOP brand now offers lower stakes games then http://WSOP.com does, and people still want to pursue that dream.

Dan: So, you’re right basically. And it should NOT be that hard.

I’m in support more of the idea of private games.

There should be public high stakes games somewhere for sure.

Likely someone will take the void that @GGPoker left.

Photo Credit: Alec Rome

George Froggatt’s Opinion on GGPoker Exclusive

After it became clear that GGPoker completed all of their changes for now,  George Froggatt wrote a detailed post on TwoPlusTwo, sharing his opinion on the topic. For example, you can find details about his personal as well as other high stakes poker pros’ attempts to find a middle ground with the company.

While we won’t be summing up the entire text here, want to share Froggatt’s and others’ opinions on the exclusive cash tables as well as suggestions on how the poker community should react.

On GGPoker

“GG is a business, it cares about its bottom line.

It didn’t believe HS games were profitable after transaction costs, game integrity, so decided to privatize them with hosts, and raise the rake. I mostly believe that they didn’t get much profit from these games. Recreationals have very high PVIs and acquisition costs,

I think over time regs will be allowed back in to increase the liquidity, obviously paying higher rake, likely giving some % of their action to the game runners.

What seems clear though is that GG doesn’t care about poker as competition/meritocracy or the HS dream.

Despite overwhelming evidence, they maintain that regs won’t play regs no matter the rake.

The profitable variants that remain on GG website are largely only profitable through promotions. At 1knl a huge % of regs w/r comes from promotions (leaderboard, envelopes) that GG can pull at any point.

And from the leaks from PokerOK CEO/ other sources privy to their plans, it seems they aren’t really concerned about it being possible to win in the long run. If they haven’t come for your format now, they will in future.

There is nothing morally wrong with businesses pursuing maximum profit imo, and maybe they should be expected to. In GGs pursuit of growth, they actually resurrected HS poker too, probably benefitting most 500nl+ players to this point.

But if you are a poker player representing the business, with the information I have it seems you have to concede that you care more about the business than the other players or poker as a competitive game, which brings me to…”

Elky and Fedor

“Their brand is attached to GG. Until this recent period I genuinely would say I believe they were just realistic people who cared about the players interests, but understood they were operating within a business framework and radical change is unrealistic.

This last period though has made me question this assumption to say the least, and unless any further information comes to light, it seems reasonable to say they care more about their bottom line than the game itself.

This is also fine, it’s not in my personal taste, especially if already extremely wealthy, but people through the whole of history have prioritised their own financial situation over ‘moral’ interests. It can also be debated if ‘protecting the ability to win at poker HS’ is a moral interest, but for me it’s the thing that drew me to the game. No politics, just strategy, and the ability to test your strategy vs whomever you’d like.

It doesn’t make them evil or bad, but silence on this particularly in Elkys case does mean they can’t claim to be champions of the game in my opinion, and this should be acknowledged.”

What Can We Do

“Publicly support sites and ambassadors that do seem to have interest in maintaining the game, and the opportunity to play high stakes.

Research rake and please think before you aimlessly play these new games GG offers and vindicate their decision making. I counted 80 entries into 2k yesterday with 4 profitable seats.

Honestly though, when one site has the monopoly and seems to be trying to push it, it’s almost every other platform.

For anyone reading from these or other sites, we have a Discord with all the HS players in which we coordinated to try and make GI easier, streamline investigations and reports, feel free to reach out.“